Balks Are Going To Teach You How To Be A Band
Nick O’Leary and Dan Kogel performing with Balks at Tom Graineys in downtown Boise, Idaho. Photo by April Massey
Balks are not coming to a city near you. The Boise-based punk rock trio has no interest in being crammed into a tour van, eating gas station nachos, and desperately trying to avoid each other’s sweaty feet. When forming Balks little more than a year ago, Nick O’Leary, Chris Devino, and Dan Kogel prioritized friendship and individual well-being over the music they were making. The threesome had seen their fair share of crappy, out-of-town shows, brawls over money, and everything else that contributes to a band’s demise. Determined not to repeat their past mistakes, the group committed punk’s cardinal sin and chose to run their band like a business. Balks released their first EP, Don’t Make A Scene, last July. The whip-fast, five-song tracklist features a sound reminiscent of ‘90s punk rock mainstays like Me First And The Gimme Gimmes, MxPx, and Rancid. Using a mix of digital and analog recording, the group continues that fast-paced, playfully heavy sound with their first full-length album, Bad Manners. Released on March 10th, the album features significantly more poignant lyrics. Lead singer Nick O’Leary tackles themes of trauma and mental health in his songwriting. Balks are determined to create a safe, inclusive space with their music; something punk rock is not always known for. By taking a definitively grown-up approach, the band has managed to escape punk’s Peter Pan syndrome while maintaining its mischievously gritty cheek. We caught up with Balks earlier this month at their recording studio in the back of Gig’s Music in Boise, Idaho. We discussed recording their first album, mental health, and the business of being in a band. You can listen to Bad Manners now on all streaming platforms.
Dan Kogel and Nick O’Leary performing with Balks at Tom Graineys in downtown Boise, Idaho. Photo by April Massey
AM: Your first EP was released last July, and your first full-length album was just released this month. You have really hit the ground running.
Nick O’Leary: With the EP, we said, “Hey, let’s just get in the studio and see if we can record a couple of songs.” We knocked out all five in one day and kept it very raw. We remixed the first five songs for the album and added another five to complete the set.
AM: The approach bands are taking now is the reverse of what it used to be. There is more of an immediate focus on recording, and playing shows has become secondary. Why do you think that is?
Chris Devino: With all the changes in technology, it is just easier. We started writing and recording songs and did not start playing shows until people asked us about it. Initially, we just recorded those songs for ourselves.
NO: The point A to point B is so much easier now. We have been playing in bands collectively for over twenty years. The thing we missed the most was being in the studio. Doing EPs and albums is less prevalent than doing singles now. That makes a lot more sense when trying to get your music out in front of people.
AM: Is it easier to find an audience by doing it that way?
NO: If you have a good understanding of social media and your demographic. We know that anyone between the ages of twenty-eight and forty-four will listen to us. So we can target those people. There will be that ebb and flow between mass consumption and smaller consumption when dealing with punk rock. Since we are a local band that wants to stay local, it is easier for us to find people through those avenues.
AM: What is the motivation behind staying local?
CD: I would say regional more than local. You are not guaranteed to recoup what you spend on gas and everything else that goes into the cost of touring. We can book a show in Salt Lake and stop off for a show in Eastern Idaho along the way. We would not be spending a lot of money or driving too far. We do not want to overextend ourselves to the point where it is no longer fun.
NO: Longevity is number one for us. Long, unnecessary tours have really hurt past bands we have been in. The costs start to add up. We do not need to be playing a show in Reno, Nevada, on a Tuesday just yet.
Dan Kogel: We are almost in our forties with four children under the age of thirteen between the three of us. Going outside our local bubble without causing unnecessary stress for our families is much harder.
NO: The Evil Knievel business plan is a young man’s game. The idea of, “Let’s just go out on the road and see what happens.”
AM: Is that why recording first is more beneficial?
CD: Having something tangible to offer people beyond playing live is nice.
Chris Devino performing with Balks at Tom Graineys in downtown Boise, Idaho. Photo by April Massey
AM: You are very practical and business-minded about your approach. Is that from experience?
NO: We have always put out our own records with any of the bands we have been in. We wanted to take this seriously and set meaningful expectations. If we do this the old way; practice, play some shows, release an album, rinse and repeat, that is fun for a couple of years, but I want to be jamming with these guys for the next fifteen or twenty years. Having that business mindset has allowed us to keep everything together and honest, so we can keep growing.
CD: Once the band is up and running, operating the way it is supposed to, it pays for itself. A lot of times, that is what ends up being the problem. You are having fun, playing shows, and not thinking about those things. Then it becomes a situation where you are trying to figure out who will be responsible.
NO: This is the first band I have been in where no one is anti-business and does not get overwhelmed by the idea. I love the DIY, punk rock ethos, but it can be done better. Chris and I can have business conversations, and Dan is always down to do reels for social media. Six thousand people have seen this guy in Superman and Megaman costumes.
DK: I will always be your little Instagram boy.
AM: Going back to the idea of punk being anti-business. You identify as a punk band but have chosen a very different approach. How do you reconcile that?
NO: Some people are very anti-any type of growth, but bands like The Misfits put out their own records and screen printed their own shirts—and Bad Religion, who started Epitaph Records. People respect it if you are consciously doing it for the right reasons.
CD: Look at Anti-Flag. Very punk rock, against the machine, but in the ‘90s, they signed to a big record label. By doing that, they were able to deliver their message to way more people. But, even then, you still have to draw that line.
NO: Most of what I have learned about music in recent years has been from hip-hop culture. Tyler The Creator and Chance The Rapper are the ones that were putting up thirty-second reels about how to build a merch line. It is becoming easier to be an all-in-one band, and the more you take it seriously, the easier it is to create an ecosystem of growth.
AM: Punk and hip-hop started similarly with similar mindsets but took very different approaches regarding the business side of things.
CD: There is more innovation within the gatekeepers of hip-hop versus the gatekeepers of punk rock who stuck too much to keeping the gate. Look at Master P and his business sense versus Fat Mike and his business sense. They appreciate the culture of business a lot more in hip-hop communities than in punk rock.
AM: Let’s pivot to the making of this album. You used a mix of old and new recording techniques. What drove that decision?
NO: The old-style punk records are very dry but still warm. We tracked drums live, which made them a lot warmer. We mixed a brand-new solid-state amp with vintage guitar sounds. Then we plugged the bass into Pro Tools for that nice, clean sound. We wanted control but not so much that we ended up losing the organic aspects of the record.
AM: There was not a lot of time between your EP and this album. Was there any difference in recording?
NO: Those first five songs just fell out of us. We did not have plans to release an album. We thought maybe we would release some singles. But we really took our time with the second set of five songs.
CD: We were playing shows by that time. We had more of an idea of what we wanted to do with those songs when we came in to record them.
NO: The stars aligned with those first five songs, and even with the next five, we wrote them really quickly. Song creation is not an issue for us. We just took more time grinding them down to where they needed to be.
AM: The lyrics on this album are very introspective; what was the inspiration behind that?
Dan Kogel performing with Balks at Tom Graineys in downtown Boise, Idaho. Photo by April Massey
NO: About two and a half years ago, I attempted suicide. I started EMDR, or trauma therapy, and started understanding how my childhood abuse affected me long-term. I tried to take my experiences and make them more universal, so anyone could relate to them.
AM: Nick, are you the predominant songwriter?
NO: Lyrics, yes. I will come in with a scratch guitar idea recorded, and then we will put together the full arrangement. With this record, I had a lot on my mind that I wanted to get out.
CD: I will hand over the thesaurus occasionally to help, but he normally has it.
NO: It is something that I take very seriously, but with three people, you want to be as inclusive as possible. Two years down the road, we may all be contributing lyrics.
AM: You all knew each other before you started playing together?
DK: Chris and I had been in prior bands together.
CD: Bands that I had been in played a lot of shows with bands Nick had been in.
NO: Venn diagram of the local punk scene.
CD: You were in this band, we were in this band, all those bands used to play shows together, and now we are here.
NO: In January of 2022, I wanted to record some songs because it had been forever since I had done anything. So I hit Chris up, and while waiting for the sound guy, we started talking about taking it further. Chris mentioned Dan, who I had played with before. When we all got together and started playing, it was like, “Oh, let’s just do a punk project.”
CD: By March, we had created Balks.
AM: Going back to lyrics. When they are more political, does that put additional responsibility on the band?
CD: I think other bands are just more political than we are.
NO: It is polarizing. Punk should be bringing people together, but it can be very gatekeeping.
DK: Politics force a divide.
AM: When you write songs with political lyrics, does it turn into a situation where you have to constantly defend what you are saying whether you are on stage or not?
NO: This is a weird story, but it does touch on that. Ratallack, a band I used to play in, had a song that ended with me screaming, “Mother fu— come on.” It was a well-known song. Every time I went to the 17th street Albertsons, someone would yell, “Mother fu— come on.” One or two times is cool, but I did not want that responsibility away from the stage. Championing mental health awareness is the torch I want to bear. We are an anti-hate, anti-shame band. If someone has different political views, I do not want my lyrics to shame them. Some far-right Republican going through their own stuff likes one of our songs, and identifies with the traumas of a left-leaning person; that is a human connection. The divisions and polarizations in punk rock are frustrating. Staying away from that allows us to stay focused.
AM: Sometimes it feels like punk cannot get over itself.
NO: Punk does inbreed within itself. But, there are artists taking it to other genres of music. Folk-punk and things like that are where you see it growing. I gravitated towards punk because I felt isolated. But for some, it is; once you feel included enough, you isolate the new people coming in.
AM: Punk is the only genre of music where I have met just as many people who say, “This is where I found my home,” as I do people who are trying to keep others out.
Nick O’Leary performing with Balks at Tom Graineys in downtown Boise, Idaho. Photo by April Massey
NO: We are probably racking up the most mental illness out of any other genre of music.
AM: Do you think the need for an outlet to express trauma is an origin point for punk rock?
NO: I think so. For most people, that massive expulsion of sound, mosh pits, and everything all at once is the only way they know how to express those feelings. You get used to hyper-arousal when you come from a loud, abusive home. Those uncomfortable feelings become normalized, but punk is a way to express that in a comfortable environment.
AM: You just released an album, but you are not really focused on touring—
CD: Never say never, but our focus is just playing music right now.
NO: It goes back to what we discussed before with how bands used to be. We are in a place where we could tour, but, considering longevity, even a four-day regional tour is not worth it right now. The next step for us is creating our own music videos.
CD: I love playing shows, it is a big part of why I do what I do, but it is much more rewarding when you play shows on that next level.
AM: Longevity is the overall goal?
NO: Yes. This is the first band I have been in that when I hang up the phone with these guys, I say, “I love you.” Music comes second to our relationship.
AM: Does your desire to maintain this friendship influence how you operate the band?
NO: In certain aspects, yes. But it has also led to taking more risks. It has helped us redefine the boundaries of this band and allowed us to be a lot more creative and innovative. Our relationship is absolutely, first and foremost—my dudes, their families, and then our career.
This article has been edited and condensed.
